Final Class – And Thank God

Tonight is my final class at UOP. While I am sure that the counselors would love for me to return to get my masters (although my academic counselor might be ready to be rid of me), I have no intention of doing that just yet, and almost assuredly not at the University of Phoenix.

I have been reflecting back on my UOP experience this last week, in large part to a number of comments earlier posts have gotten in recent days, and I think I believe the following things.

1. The general public is buying into the idea that everyone should go to college. The realization is that at some point in the education process (just like the regular workforce) you have to start separating the able from the rest. Not everyone is capable of completing the highest level of academic work. Instead of providing institutions that have lower requirements than others, we need to standardize the education and exclude more people. Imagine if each public high-school was able to establish it’s own graduation criteria. How much faith would people have in the education from certain high schools?

2. UOP does a good job of providing the basic education services to the adult learner. The bottom line is that I was wanting a college experience similar to what I received the first time. I originally attended Westminster College in Fulton, MO. For people who want a rich history, and a tough academic curriculum, combined with some good college fun, I can’t think of a better place to go. Small town, good school, and the best instructors you can find. UOP is not trading on it’s academic rigor like Westminster is. UOP is trading on volume, and the basics. I should have done a better job of realizing that earlier in my curriculum and gone somewhere else.

3. The team concept can go to far. In work environments, companies are increasingly going to a team environment for work assignments. This works in most cases because in private industry you have accountability for your contributions. (I work for the government which mutates this idea in a bad way, but that is a different concept). At UOP, students do not have really have accountability for their work because the consequences are not routinely enforced. I would be surprised to see someone actually flunk out of UOP. One instructor talked about how a person could do only the team assignments, and participation points, and still graduate from UOP. Beings you don’t normally put a GPA on a resume (unless it is followed by **** cum laude) then why work hard?

4. Professional people are not always good teachers. Not everyone can teach. If you don’t believe me then you need to try it yourself. Some people just do not have the ability or the patience for it. UOP needs todo a better job of making sure it’s instructors are actually doing their job, and of monitoring their classes. I have received comments that the online courses are monitored fairly well, but their on-ground courses (especially in Kansas City) are not. 2 years, and I have yet to see someone audit a class.

5. Most UOP students are not looking for a education, they are looking for a degree. They want the piece of paper that they see as the key to the corporate ladder. If they really wanted an education, then more of them would be writing blogs like this one.

I don’t know if I will keep posting to this after today. If comments appear and others have questions I will be sure to respond. My profile should now list my real name, and this post pretty much gives away anything you need to know about me. If UOP staffers find this and want to talk to me, e-mail me, you have my address in your files.

Thanks

Josh

18 Responses to “Final Class – And Thank God”

  1. Big Daddy Says:

    Thank you for your blog. Very interesting to read about your opinions on UOP.

    You may want to run some of your writing through the Center for Writing Excellence to correct some minor grammar and verbage issues you are publishing.

    Looks bad for those of us who actually value the opportunity to have learned something from the cohort systems at UOP.

    thanks!

  2. samspade Says:

    Hey big daddy Look up the term ‘ad hominem.’

    Then deal with the issues raised. Or not.

  3. Trish Says:

    I have two classes left at UOP and I graduate. I have been very happy with the education and the experiences that I have had with this school. I am sure that I will continue my education wtih UOP. I like the way their classes are set up and I have feel that I have gotten a good education from them. As far as your comment that you would be surprised to see someone flunk out. Well be surprised! I have known a few people who have flunked out of UOP because of their grades. It takes a lot of self discripline to finish their programs and not a lot of people can do it.

  4. Anonymous Says:

    free car quote

    Excellent post. Keep it up!

  5. Judy Says:

    I appreciate the original post by Josh. I am a new student at UOP – less than 6 courses – and have been continuously frustrated with both the elementary teachings, the less-than-prepared instructors, and most especially the lack of accountability in learning teams.

    I no longer buy the concept of “they are meant to mirror teams in the workplace.” I will believe that when I have the power to fire the ones that are completely incompetent, unwilling, non-participatory, and downright rude and offensive.

    I am currently in my Research class, and will be conducting my research on how the lack of accountability in learning teams has led to the frighteningly high drop-out rate.

  6. thomas Says:

    I think t comes down to certain issues. I just graduated from UOP in May and yes I am strugglng. I graduated with an M.Ed. in special education. The truth is that Iam trying to take tests in subjects that are not related to UOP and have sent several resumes out. My problem is with NCLB. I cannot even get hired without these frggin tests. I signe dup as a sub with a company that sends people around to different counties. Subbing is common for people to do while waitng for teaching jobs.

  7. Monastery Says:

    Somehow i missed the point. Probably lost in translation :) Anyway … nice blog to visit.

    cheers, Monastery
    .

  8. Gary Says:

    It’s too bad you have the feelings you do about your UoP education. I attended a traditional university for over three years. I think the education that UoP offers is a quality one, as long as the student treats it that way. The learning style is different and doesn’t fit everyones wishes but the same can be said about traditional schools too. My course work has been challenging. The flexability allowed me to finish college that otherwise I probably wouldn’t have done.

  9. Mark Says:

    I agree 100%. Finishing up last class this week and of the 15 classes taken, perhaps three were academically challenging and well taught. The overwhelming majority of facilitators — officially they’re not teachers or professors — are terrible. Standards are not consistent from class to class in terms of point scale, adherence to writing standards, weighted assignments, finals/no finals, the list goes on. When asked recently during an exist survey, “Would you recommend Phoenix to another adult student?” I without any thought said no. Not because the school has no standards in terms of the people it accepts as customers (yes, customers, not students), or because the facilitators are terrible, but because of this silly “team” work group concept that they push. Perhaps one of the past 15 “teams” has worked out. The rest have been nightmarish in terms of helping grown adults form complete sentences or understand trivial concepts. The team system is flawed since in the workplace one assembles teams from qualified individuals who bring a beneficial skill to the table. Sadly, few UOP customers bring much to the table. It’s sad for me to think that the vast majority of graduates may be accepted into society as “educated” because they have a piece of paper, when, quite frankly, most in my experience barely operate at the high school level.

    If someone reading this is contemplating UOP, I recommend you reconsider. UOP students may defend their decision to have attended, but primarily it’s because it took half a dozen classes before the light bulb went on that the school sucked. But by that time, you’re half way through the program, which was my unfortunate situation.

  10. Mike Says:

    Preach on. Those who have disagreed most likely have a stake in Apollo group/Axia/UoP.

  11. Robert Says:

    nice blog – and i agree. UOP is terrible OBTW, I hear Apollo is expanding to Canada and S. America. God Help online education..

  12. Butch Says:

    As with any education you get out what you put in. I have 7 weeks remaining before graduation, and have taken 24 classes at UoP. Yes some have been more challenging, yes I have had difficult or incompetent facilitators, and some of the teams have been horrible to work with. But all in all I feel my education has been a good one, even though at times I feel like the cost is too high, financially and personally.
    I have worked hard and it shows. The bottom line is would you do it again? My answer is YES.

  13. Kara Says:

    I have a M.ed from UOP and NOBODY will hire me. I have so much student debt and no schools will accept my degree as real. I keep calling the UoP and all the want is thier money. I am very angry about this.

  14. Rachael Says:

    Thanks, Josh

    I agree mostly with what you are saying and I am also on my last and final class with UoP. My most frustrating experiences have been with learning teams and having to complete most work myself, mostly because I refused to submit sub-standard work, but then I should have realized much sooner that I was going to a sub-standard school. I tell people I am about to graduate because I am happy I completed 4 years, but I cringe when I tell them where I got my degree from…it’s almost as if I didn’t earn anything at all because UoP has such a rep for being a degree mill. What a waste!!! I would never recommend this school to anyone

  15. ...really? Says:

    Unfortunately, I have to agree with Josh. I have not only obtained a Bachelor’s degree from UOP but I have been an Enrollment Counselor for two years. I have defended the school, performed above goal and am unable to move up within my own company! This is especially frustrating that not one person on the upper management team has a degree form UOP. I no longer have any motivation to work hard and I sure do not want to enroll anyone into this mess of a program and school.

  16. Kara Says:

    Kara, I am running into the same problem. NOBODy will hire me either.

  17. NotVeryNice Says:

    I’ve got 1 class left at UOP (Online), but I haven’t taken all of my classes there. I’ve taken my share of traditional classes at what many in the post would consider legitimate, respectable schools.

    You may be right about the extent to which UOP is or is not respected in the industry, but you’re not right about the quality of education. I’ve been in classes in the other schools where graduating seniors had to sound words out syllable by syllable when reading out loud, and the I’ve never taken a single class at any of those institutions where I felt like I learned much.

    I’ve already been in the professional world for a while. I’m an IT Mgr at a Fortune 200 organization, and I make six figures. My boss, a VP, doesn’t have a degree. Our organization’s CTO doesn’t have a degree. I know a few additional high level senior executives that don’t have degrees. What they all do have is a high level of intelligence and creativity, a tremendous work ethic and a long history of success. I’ve gotten what success I’ve had so far through (I think) the same means.

    The degree doesn’t make or break you. Outside of a few select top institutions, the school doesn’t make any difference either. You make all of the difference. Most of the facilitators at UOP aren’t very good, but it doesn’t matter. Team members often don’t pull their load, but it doesn’t matter either because you’re going to get that your whole career. What matters is the extent to which each of you make the choice to learn and succeed.

    It’s not profound, but that’s all there is to it.

  18. a frustrated student Says:

    Your totally correct they are not fair some of them don’t even look at the individual form to help a student in need or even provide a second chance.

    I did not even want to study Business Communications, but the counselor told me that it was going to work for me in what I wanted I just asked if they had film production and he was dead wrong now I am stuck with a degree I don’t even want and paying for everything.
    All the people of the staff of the UOP are very rude to me every time I ask for help or guidance treating me like if I am a nobody.
    If I had the opportunity to do it all over again I would have never listened to that counselor, and I would never go to that dreaded University again I hate it !!

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